Tavern Talk - List Building

From Kuffy at The Trading Post:

"After listening to a recent show of Heelanhammer I came across the idea of list building.  I wanted to see how people went about building their lists.  There are a host of methods people use.  Some start with the rare slots or their character choices, while others get the core choice out of the way.  Do you see a difference between a friendly pick up game list and a tournament list?  One thing it seems many gamers often appear to view and consider with their lists is the meta game - how much attention do you put on the local meta-gaming?  Are your lists consistent or do you change from game to game?  I have heard of gamers tailoring their lists to work against certain armies or lists, does this appeal to you?  How do you feel on the topic of tailored lists?"

On List Building:

When I am building lists I almost always think of a theme I am doing first. This gives me a basic idea of an army and how it will look and play. For example, I have been recently building lists for an all Goblin army, so right away that gives me a visual in my mind of the basic appearance of my army. 

Once I have settled on a theme I always move to my Characters. I don't know if this is because I got into gaming through RPGs, but the characters are going to be where I begin. With 8th edition this has become a difficult step because I now can take many characters if I choose. I usually decide if I am going magic heavy and if so I will be taking at least a Level 3 wizard, most likely a level 4 which is how I went with my gobbo list. 

Once I get my characters decided on I move onto units. I don't usually start with any one unit type in particular it really depends on what I am trying to do with my list. For example in my gobbos list I bought up all the war machines I owned. Gobbos are not great in combat so my plan with the list is to bombard the enemy with magic and firepower and let my goblins clean up what is left. I decided at this point I needed to get my troops in and took a 40+ Night Goblins Horde as a tarpit units with several 20 strong gobbo units in support. 

At this point I grab any units I know I want, for instance Trolls or a giant, then I spend what ever I have remaining on those little extra units like fast cav / chariots. This is the same basic process I use on every list I build for Fantasy Battles. 


On Type of Lists:


For me there doesn't have to be a difference between friendly lists and tournament lists. What you need to have is your opponents expectations during a friendly game. At a tournament people will be playing to win, but during a friendly game the two players should know what each other wants from the game. I always ask people I don't know if they are practicing for a tournament or just out to have fun, then I know what to expect before the game starts.

On The Meta-Game:

 I hate this term almost as much as I hate Mathhammer. I pay no attention to the meta game in my area, I play the lists I want to play to the best of my ability and have fun doing so. When I have to start optimizing units and studying local habits to enjoy playing the game; I am then taking something I enjoy and turning it into work. It will then be time for me to leave the hobby



On Tailored Lists:


This can definitely be a touchy subject so my rule of thumb is to avoid it at all costs when playing people I meet at the store. When playing my friends I don't mind using tailored lists or if they do as long as we agreed on it. In a recent campaign I played against a friend we tailored our lists and still had a blast playing the battles


Well those are just my thoughts on list building. I hope you enjoyed this edition of Tavern Talk. Make sure you stop by The Trading Post where Kuffy will be posting other responses to these same questions.


- Meatball


Join the Warhammer Fantasy Blog Hub at - The Trading Post

Tavern Talk - New Years Resolutions

Kuffy, over at the Trading Post has posted a new Tavern Talk topic for the new year. See his own words below!  

The new year is here, time for all those promises you make to the 'hobby gods', friends and family about your hobby.  It is time to admit them to the blogosphere, to share with us all the resolutions you have made for Fantasy in the new year.  What are your plans for the up coming year?  What goals do you hope to achieve for 2011?  

Well for Fantasy battle this year I really only have two plans that I hope to be able to keep up with.

First and foremost I need to update the paint job on my Orcs and Goblins. They were the first army I ever owned and then I traded them off for my first 40K army (Space Wolves). We long story short I managed to get my Orcs and Goblins back 10 years later, but now the age on their paint job is showing so I really want to get them up to stuff before the fall so i can take them to the Alamo GT.


So to get started with that I have stripped down Grimgor and his unit of black orcs. They are now primed and ready to be painted as my first step into updating this army. I don't plan on stripping all the models, as many of them can be fixed with with some simple washes and new flock on their bases. Either way I do have allot of work ahead of me, but stay tuned as I will be documenting it all on my blog starting with the new paint job and Grimgor and his Ladz.

My second big project for the year is to finish collecting the models I want for my Vampire counts and then start putting some pain on the minis. I have most of what I want I am just looking at adding more zombies, because you can never have too many zombies. In addition to the zombies I want to add a unit of Black Knights and some Spirit Hosts and finally a unit of Cairn Wraiths with a Tomb Banshee.

I have been busy making custom bases for minis and I am really happy with how they are turning out. So once I collect the rest of the minis I will finish my customizations and then hopefully get some paint on the models.


Those are two pretty big projects and if somehow I manage to get them both accomplished then I have my Beastmen as a third and final project for the year, but I know the chances of that are slim to none.


Well there you have it those are my plans for Fantasy Battles for 2011. As always, thank you for taking the time to read my blog. Please feel free to leave a comment or two, and be sure to check out the Trading Post, your hub for Fantasy Battles blogs!

-Meatball

Tavern Talk - Looking Back

Kuffy, over at the Trading Post, has posted a final topic for Tavern Talk 2010. Basically he is asking us to post about our accomplishments and failures for Fantasy Battles over the last year.

My failure for 2010 is easily the fact I didn't get my Vampire Counts painted. I was planning on painting them up for 8th edition, but things just kept getting in the way  that prevented me from sitting down and painting the little blood suckers. I did get much of the conversion work done that I wanted to do, but at this time I still don't have all the models I want so they are still very much a work-in-progress. The one piece of good news relating to my vampires is that I did manage to paint one of my Vampire Counts for a competition. I didn't win, but at last it got something for my Vampires painted this year!

Hopefully 2011 will see me getting some paint onto my Vampire Counts, but the projects are already lining up so I am going to have to push my vampires to the front of the line.

My proudest achievement for Fantasy Battles for 2010 is very easy for me to pick. I was able to re-acquire my Orcs and Goblins army through a trade. Why do I consider this such an achievement? Well this army is the first ever army, that I painted, and that was over 10 years ago. Not only was it the first army I completely painted, but it was my first army period, this includes both Fantasy and 40K. I collected and painted the army for about a year and then I was dumb and traded it to a friend for my first 40K army. I have regretted that trade ever since. I never found another Fantasy army I was as fond of as my Orcs and Goblins

Then low and behold 10 years later and I am back living in San Antonio and gaming with many of the same friends when out of the blue my buddy asks me if I would be interested in trading to get my old Orc and Goblin army back. At first I thought he was messing with me, but he was serious and wanted to trade it for my Necrons. Needless to say I jumped at the opportunity.

The army was just how I remembered leaving it, except my buddy had added many of the newer miniatures to the army.

 I know the paint job is showing its age, so I plan on at least updating it a bit with some washes and maybe new bases. Unfortunately this again will take time away from my Vampire Counts, but I am willing to take that time to get my Orcs and Goblins back into playing shape!

Well that is both my biggest gaming failure and success for 2010. I hope to have much more success in 2011 by not only updating my Orcs and Goblins, but also getting some paint onto my Vampire Counts. As always, thank you for taking the time to read my blog. Please feel free to leave a comment or two, and be sure to check out the Trading Post, your hub for Fantasy Battles blogs!

-Meatball

Tavern Talk - Rituals

I missed out on the last Tavern Talk due to my move, but when Kuffy over at The Trading Post sent out this new assignment, I just had to make sure I posted on this one.


So the topic for discussion are what rituals we as gamers go through. There are a few quirky things I do in my games over a few gaming systems so this will not be a Fantasy Battle specific post.


One of the rituals that I stick to the most is in my games of Warhammer 40K. I have sets of dice I only use with certain armies. I have a set of Black dice with silver pips that is for my Black Templars and I have a set of grey dice with yellow pips that I use for my Space Wolves. I never use any other dice with these two armies and I am not even sure why I do it but it is something I stick to every time I play either of them.


Another ritual I have is naming all of the characters is my army lists. It doesn't matter what system I am playing, I always give the characters a name and have it on my list. I am sure it comes from all the years I played D&D, I just like having that feel of my own personal character in my army. To piggyback on that I have an Orc character that I use in both my Orcs and Goblins as well as my Space Ork armies. His name is Grubak Skulzbasha and no matter what he makes an appearance in my army lists as one of the orc/ork characters.


My last ritual that pretty much is carried over in every game that I play that uses dice, is carrying the dice I am going to use for the game in this red, green and brown dice bag. I don't even remember where I got the damn thing but anytime I leave my house to go gaming it is right there by my side carrying what ever dice I have chosen t use for that day.


Well there you have it, just a few of my personal rituals I go through when I am getting ready to do some gaming.


-BJ


You can read more topics at the Tavern Talks Archive. If you have a blog dedicated to Warhammer Fantasy you should join The Trading Post the hub for Warhammer Fantasy blogs.

Tavern Talk - 8th Edition; how has it changed your army?

The only army I have played several games with in 8th edition is my Orcs and Goblins and I must say that I have enjoyed it so much that my 10 year old army is getting a new paint job on some units and I have even purchased a few new units for it.

I think 8th edition in general really levels the playing field among all armies as compared to 7th edition, but there are several areas where the 8th edition rules have really helped my Greenskins and made them a force to be reckoned with.

One of the toughest things for me when playing Greenskins in the past has been the randomness that comes from the Greenskins animosity rule. Now with some of the randomness built right into 8th edition, (random spell dice, random charge distance) it has made it so all armies must deal with random events in the game and this is really feel has made a difference for me when playing Orcs and Goblins.

Another rule that this army really benefits from is horde rule. We have cheap troops so building hordes is easy. I now always run at least a Horde of Night Goblins, combine the hordes rule with the spears rule and then throw in netters and Night Goblin Fanatics and you have a unit that can stand up to just about everything. I am seriously considering running an all goblin army under 8th edition rules.

I have always loved Greenskin magic but rarely did I ever bother taking anything more than a scroll caddy for the Orcs and Goblins. With the changes to magic I now find myself fielding at least 2 casters and usually one of them is a lord. While yes there is no guarantee that you will get spells off magic is much more useful and when it does go off it is usually pretty fun to watch.

Well those are just a few of the ways that I feel the Orcs and Goblins have benefited  from the changes in 8th edition. I would love to hear any of your opinions on benefits I may have missed for the Greenskins, please feel free to leave a comment on the subject. As always, thank you for taking the time to read my blog.

-BJ

Tavern Talk: Army Theme

For this month's tavern talk collaborative post this is what we received as the topic. How important do you view the theme of an army when writing your lists, assembling your army or painting them?  Is it a small trifling thing that you pay little attention too or is it some big arching theme you have carefully planned or spread through your entire army?  If you do theme then, how do you achieve it?  Why did you choose that theme?  Since I had already discussed this topic on my 40K blog I decided to just re-run the article here on The Winds of Magic.


In general there are 3 ways that I create a unified theme for my armies aside from using army composition. The first is when selecting the color scheme for my army. The second is when deciding how I am going to base the army. The last one is using some form of iconography or other extra detail that can tie the theme together.

In the image above I am showing two different ways of how I achieved a unified theme with 3 different units from my Dwarf army. The first of these unifying elements is the use of two colors, a burgandy red and polished gold. If you notice these two colors appear on every model in each unit. They can be used on small or large section of the model. For instance the heavily armored Ironbreakers in the middle have both colors appearing on their shields. Similarly, my dwarf lord with shield bearers had the red appearing on the shield but it also seen on the bearer's helmets, while the gold is used on numerous details as the entire model. Lastly with my bolt thrower crew the red makes a dominant appearance in the color of the war machine as well as the crew clothing and the gold once again shows up on many of the details.


The second method I have used to unify this army is the material and colors used to base the models. When doing an army I will stick to using the same material and colors throughout. I also will take down notes so that in the future when I added models to the army I know exactly what material I used to get the bases looking the same. With my Dwarfs I used cat litter that was based in Chaos Black then drybrushed with layers of codex gray, fortress gray and finally skull white.

With some armies, especially in 40k, you may already have a unified color scheme, but that doesn't prevent you from making your army stand out from others of the same type. This is where I will use Iconography or other extra details to make armies like my Black Templars look unified but still stand out from other Black Templar armies.


The image to the left is the heraldry for the Kilburne Crusade, otherwise know as my Black Templars army. I tried to keep it very simple so that I could easily duplicate it on my models with paint or decals. Throughout my entire Templar force I have used the iconography to tie the army together in a unified theme.


In the image above you can see how I managed to get the heraldry on several of my vehicles. While in the image below I show examples of how I fit the heraldry onto my Marshal as well as a crusade squad unit. The round knee pads are particularly good for using the heraldry colors on.

I have also used a similar technique on my Orcs and Goblins for Fantasy Battles. There I used red tattoos as well as red war paint to unify the army. I plan to do the same with my Orks for 40k only using blue tat and warpaint. The option are only limited by your creativity.


Well there you have it, those are the three main ways I choose to use to give my army a unified theme. I would love to hear or see some examples of how others accomplish this. As always thanks for taking the time to read my thought. I welcome any and all comments, so please feel free to leave them.


Till next time,


-BJ

Tavern Talk: Fluffing It

Kuffy from The Trading Post has offered up the first in a series of collaborative blog post topics. This months topics is "Fluffing it" in which Kuffy wants to know how we feel about fluff as well as how we incorporate it into our armies.

I love fluff, it is one of the main things that has drawn me into this hobby. Fluff takes on various meanings for me, from army composition to background and various things in between. I started off in gaming through playing Dungeons and Dragons back when I was a teenager. I loved building a background for my characters, then when my D&D groups started using miniatures I got into painting them and converting them to be as I imagined my character to be. I carried this over with me into miniature war-gaming.

When developing fluff for my armies I usually start off with my characters, specifically my army general. To the left you can see the stalwart leader of my Dwarf army, Runstal Stonehammer. He is a Lord of Karak Kadrin and so he as well as his army sport that holds colors. Runstal and his Stonehammer clan have devoted themselves to the protection of their home. Instead of residing in Karak Kadrin, Runstal keeps his army on the borders of the Dwarf lands protecting it from the various Orc hordes in the area.

Because of this background my army list tend to be more troop heavy than war-machine. I figure that Runstal is constantly moving his army to defend against new orc threats, thus he needs vast amounts of troops to hold off the orc masses. I also figure moving large amounts of war-machines would slow him down, so he maintains only a few that are easy to transport. Other war-machines can be built on the spot as needed.

That was just a glimpse into my Dwarf fluff but you get the idea. I started off defining my general then explaining why his army is more troops than war-machine. Now to the right you can see my Black Orc Warboss, Grubak Skulzbusta. I just recently acquired an orc army that I painted for a friend several years ago. Over half of this army is already painted so as I think about my fluff, I have to make sure I incorporate things like the units that are in the army and why, as well as the color scheme. I am early in the stages of making the fluff for this army.

Much of this orc army is already painted, and the units all have the color red in them some how, be it dags, tattoos, or skulls painted on their armor. So I plan on using this theme in choosing a name for Grubak's horde.

A color scheme is a great way to unify an army but it is also a way to show some of the fluff of your army. Maybe Grubak likes the color red and makes sure all his boyz be wearin it. Maybe Grubak got his Skulzbusta name because his finishing move always involves a blow to the head. There is just a few mins of brainstorming while writing this post, I have got some fluff developing for the army. I have even got a potential name, the Bloody Skulz tribe. I got all of that because of how the two units below were painted.

Another way to make an army fluffy is through the units themselves.  If you take a look at the picture to the left, you will see my Dwarf Miners. This units fluff, as well as rules, allow them to come up from underground  and appear on any board edge. So with my miners, I took the time to convert the rear two ranks to look as though they are still digging out from underground. This is a way to add fluff and still play any type of list you like.

Another example is from my orc army. The Savage orcs use magic tattoos and warpaint instead of armor, so every savage orc I painted has tattoos or warpaint on their body just to represent this little bit of fluff. Other idea are placing bits from your arch enemy onto your models. My dwarfs constantly war with Orcs, so an orc head or two may be appropriate on their banners, or at their feet.

The final way I do fluffy list is my army composition. I believe that the core units are core because they are the most numerous units available to the general. My army list are always very high in core troops. Secondly, rare choices are for lack of a better word, rare. The force organization chart does limit the numbers fielded, but I further limit myself by rarely taking two of the same rare choice. You will never see two giants running around with my orc tribe. There is one exception to this for me and that is my Tomb Kings, occasionally I will field two Screaming Skull catapults.

As you can see there are numerous ways to add fluff to an army. You can even still use your ultra competitive list and have them be fluffy, it just takes a little extra work. In my opinion fluff makes me enjoy my army more and allows me to be even more creative with my army than just following the rules. Is it important to just play the game? No, but it makes the game more enjoyable for me and I enjoy seeing and hearing the fluff of other peoples armies.

Do you feel that fluff is important?
How do you add fluff to your armies?
Do you enjoy playing against fluffy armies?